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Reuben Racecar LP - WANTED
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Aidan
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But they don't degrade with playing. Or at least if they do, only a fraction of the amount which vinyls do.
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sam s




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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BUT....vinyls are cooler.
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Tippo



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I reckon a vinyl drive for computer would be kool Wink

Lol my Racecar is Racecar backwards Lp came today Very Happy
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chipstick



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tippo wrote:
I reckon a vinyl drive for computer would be kool Wink

Funny you should say that...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/SoundLab-USB-Turntable-Software-Lid/dp/B000UH0QPW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1201786435&sr=1-2
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petrolmonkey



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aidan wrote:
(This is not to you Rob, I'm sure you know all this... in fact you may even be able to correct it, my knowledge of this stuff isn't as far reaching as yours, but I think I have the basic facts right.) Although vinyl has a wider frequency response (as it's analogue not digital and doesn't have to compress the audio quality digital data in order to reduce size) unless the tracks were recorded on analogue gear (which I will bet my left bollock they weren't) or at super high quality such as 96kHz, putting CD quality audio on vinyl won't provide any of those extra frequencies, so in that respect vinyl isn't superior. Vinyl DOES however, have a different 'sound' (which some prefer) to CD, so it needs to be mastered in a different way to CD, and so that's what Rob was asking.

So Rob, I would guess that it was mastered for Vinyl - a lot of places offer mastering and vinyl production (I'm sure there's a better word for it, but I can't think of it) as a package deal - they make sure their customers know Vinyl mastering is important as a way to get more money out of them. The bastards. Justified, though.


Sort of. Its not to do with better frequency response and so more frequencies being picked up. The human ear can hear 20Hz - 20kHz and this is what you mean by frequency. However the detail of these frequencies is picked up differently either boosting or diminishing the different frequencies. Vinyl (as with all analogue for that matter) tends to pick up bass a bit better which is why it is said to have a warmer feel to it. Digital is better at highs but this tends to leave the sound more brittle which is why most 'purist' prefer it.

Anyway. Vinyl is mastered differently to CDs mainly due to this and the way the information is stored.
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Aidan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weeeell yes but there's a good argument for the merit of vinyl because of the frequencies it picks up that we CAN'T hear. Certain inaudible frequencies affect us emotionally, which is why a classical music purist can listen to this or that concerto on vinyl and be in tears, but listen on CD and be left cold. There are loads of known frequencies which affect our bodies - prolonged exposure to 4Hz can seriously damage our internal organs. I think it's 9Hz that makes us need to shit. It's the same above 20kHz - some frequencies affect us that we can't hear.
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sad_statue_27




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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you learn something you knew every day...
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Aidan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Er... sorry? It's a discussion...
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petrolmonkey



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aidan wrote:
Weeeell yes but there's a good argument for the merit of vinyl because of the frequencies it picks up that we CAN'T hear. Certain inaudible frequencies affect us emotionally, which is why a classical music purist can listen to this or that concerto on vinyl and be in tears, but listen on CD and be left cold. There are loads of known frequencies which affect our bodies - prolonged exposure to 4Hz can seriously damage our internal organs. I think it's 9Hz that makes us need to shit. It's the same above 20kHz - some frequencies affect us that we can't hear.


Unfortunately Aidan your argument has niggling holes in it. Most Hi Fi speakers cant replicate bass below about 35-40Hz without a sub. Higher frequencies drop off probably around 30kHz. This is assuming that they're relatively nice speakers, not shitty ear phones most people would be listening through on their way to work. This also assumes that the mics used to record can do much better. Some can, like nice condenser mics.

I still prefer Vinyl though. though this has to do with other things that I can't be arsed with saying as I should probably be doing work.
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Aidan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No no, I quite agree. Sorry, I wasn't arguing for vinyl over CD, I was playing devil's advocate without thinking about it. I'm currently writing an essay entitled "Examine the development of 1980s and 1990s digital technology and how it has impacted on the industry in terms of production, circulation and consumption of music", so I'm trying to explain the sides of both arguments, and it kind of spilled over to the board!

I would say though, that there is SOME validity in the vinyl argument. But you're right, it falls down in all kinds of places, much as the HD TV argument does. I don't know enough about that to quote the numbers, but basically I do hate the fact that a lot of people have HD TVs which they assume MUST be better, without being able to tell the difference. I don't own one, but on every occasion I've seen HD I've not been 'startled' by the difference, as everyone else claims to. It's the same with the audio argument - at a certain point, even on the best systems, only a true audiophile (or pedant, as some might say Wink) can tell the difference.
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petrolmonkey



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aidan wrote:
No no, I quite agree. Sorry, I wasn't arguing for vinyl over CD, I was playing devil's advocate without thinking about it. I'm currently writing an essay entitled "Examine the development of 1980s and 1990s digital technology and how it has impacted on the industry in terms of production, circulation and consumption of music", so I'm trying to explain the sides of both arguments, and it kind of spilled over to the board!

I would say though, that there is SOME validity in the vinyl argument. But you're right, it falls down in all kinds of places, much as the HD TV argument does. I don't know enough about that to quote the numbers, but basically I do hate the fact that a lot of people have HD TVs which they assume MUST be better, without being able to tell the difference. I don't own one, but on every occasion I've seen HD I've not been 'startled' by the difference, as everyone else claims to. It's the same with the audio argument - at a certain point, even on the best systems, only a true audiophile (or pedant, as some might say Wink) can tell the difference.


Actually they 'technically' can't. the reason CDs are 44.1kHZ and 16 bit is because they (whoever they are) found that the human ear can't differentiate between sound quality at anything higher. I think the main difference is the feel. It's sort of similar to when you go to a venue with a decent enough sound system. Whats coming out might be pure arse however because its large enough for you to feel in your body and not just hear it might seem better just because you can feel the bass in your chest from the kick drum of what have you it just leaves you in awe drooling on the floor at the warmth of the bass. It's ultimately all down to psycho acoustics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoacoustics

In terms of how its affected the industry. Well you probably don't need me to say. But don't forget to include ease of storage, not needing reel after reel of tape for several takes of one song, better editing, cheaper recording (though not necessarily better as people think they can do it all themselves nowadays) and then of course the whole file sharing thing. Theres probably more but this post is already too long.


Last edited by petrolmonkey on Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Aidan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, cheers! I'm really focussing on the whole filesharing/online music thing and how that's changed/changing the industry, but I do have to give the backstory about digital recording, etc. Also I hadn't considered the whole 'now everyone can do it' part, which IMHO is more negative than positive...

Fair play on the first point - I won't continue the discussion as I'm fast getting out of my depth, as I said, my knowledge on this stuff is fairly limited. By the way, 'they' that created the 16 bit 44.1kHz standard (Red book) was Sony and Phillips in 1980. That's not something I normally know, but this damn essay...
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petrolmonkey



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're looking into the back story checkout ADAT if you haven't yet.
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Aidan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can recite about 3 article on ADAT already Wink Cheers matey.
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{Cap-Down}



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I quite enjoyed all that information i just recieved about vinyl and CD's.

you guys forgot YOU CAN SCRATCH VINYL LOLLZLZLZLZ.

(even if it your dad's madness vinyl you're scracthing causing untold damage)
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