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youdeservetobewith_no-one



Age: 33
Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I the only one who is hideously disappointed with reuben's latest outing? The whole album though having okay tracks on it simply doesn't flow and have the finesse of their previous work. I was never over the moon with VFVD but I was satisfied. With this I simply don't even see the point anymore. I've read before from some fans on these forums how racecar (by far the greatest album ever created in the hisotry of all albums) is just a 'collection of songs' and lacks flow. I personally don't see this at all, and feel that way about INWT. 'Cities on fire' is a good song, but its simply not an opening track. 'We're all going home in an ambulance' is very clever, perhaps the standout track of the album, but again it doesnt feel right placed where it is. As if all these songs have just been chucked on an album with no order. To me racecar actually tells a story, step by step. I'm not suggesting that this story is as blaitant as a rock opera album like 'tommy' or 'the wall', but it tells something new with each song in a steady pace. It's no coincidence to me that 'eating only apples' is prevailing the sex appeal of a girl you meet whilst 'our song' is the realisation that these looks are meaningless compared to this persons dull personality ('cause I got bored of you). I haven't noticed any of these wonderful connections with INWT.
But my biggest rant of all has got to be 'good luck'. What the hell is this?! Jamie hangs up his detuned yamaha sticker guitar for this friday night lounge bar dullfest?! The beauty of reuben to me was they never needed to do this stuff. They could convey this sort of emotion without having to grab an acoustic guitar. They could use their remarkable adaptation of their instrumentation to trully express these sorts of emotions. Them doing this just makes it unbelievable. And what's with the duet?! It just feels completly out of place when this other person starts singing with Jamie. It really is a shame to say that, because this hannah person is a really good singer. But the whole thing just doesnt seem convincing enough.
Perhaps I'm just too much of a racecar addict to ever expect reuben to return to the way their sound was. They have a right to grow and expand. But part of me just wishes they had written that 'racecar 2 and 3' that they were so against producing.
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petrolmonkey



Age: 34
Joined: 09 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Number one

Quote:
Am I the only one who is hideously disappointed with reuben's latest outing?


Apparently. People might not have been too happy with it but theres no denying it was openly embraced by the fan population as a whole.

Secondly

Quote:
The whole album though having okay tracks on it simply doesn't flow and have the finesse of their previous work. I was never over the moon with VFVD but I was satisfied. With this I simply don't even see the point anymore. I've read before from some fans on these forums how racecar (by far the greatest album ever created in the hisotry of all albums) is just a 'collection of songs' and lacks flow.


I agree with you slightly, but I don't think any of the Reuben albums ever had a flow to them, Racecar was pretty much centerd around the whole growing up thing and being pissed off, so the songs had a certain coherency but it never told a story and it was a collection of songs. The band have said that they wern't sure if it would happen again so slap the best all on one disk and if they got a second deal then brilliant. Very Fast Very Dangerous was again being pissed off, (this is a thing Jamie does well being pissed off) but more through his experiences of being in a band and the whole music industry, so less things that a 'normal' (as in someone who works 9 to 5) person would experience. Return of the Jedi is a very good example of this. And while In Nothing We Trust does seem a fairly mish mash of song topics it no doubt covers a few things that the band wanted to grow upon as far as song writing is concerned. You can't deny that the whole album at certain points had an epic feel to it and the songs are deliverd with a certain amount of honesty.



Quote:
'Cities on fire' is a good song, but its simply not an opening track.


Why not its epic in the most common use of the word.


Quote:
But my biggest rant of all has got to be 'good luck'. What the hell is this?! Jamie hangs up his detuned yamaha sticker guitar for this friday night lounge bar dullfest?! The beauty of reuben to me was they never needed to do this stuff. They could convey this sort of emotion without having to grab an acoustic guitar.


It's not the first time that the good old acoustic has popped out, 'once' is a good example of this. Acoustic but with backing with bass and drums? Bonza! Also theres an amount of emotion that one can't get from an electric guitar that you can get from an acoustic. It's a soft song, so requires a soft instrument to play it.

Quote:
Perhaps I'm just too much of a racecar addict to ever expect reuben to return to the way their sound was. They have a right to grow and expand. But part of me just wishes they had written that 'racecar 2 and 3' that they were so against producing.


Again yes. I long for the days of an 'Alpha Signal 9' (or some other odd number). Fast heavy Reuben where its balls to the wall shouting with aggressive drums thumping the shite out of you. There are songs I love and there are songs I skip, 'Good Luck' generally being one of them. I don't hate this song but it does require a certain situation to listen to it but to just denounce a band becasue of the route they've taken is just silly. Of course a band has the right to expand. You don't own them. This is the biggest complaint a fan has when a band joins a major label. They've sold out and all that crap. Reuben are their own label. They do what they want and if anything the should be applauded for it. It takes balls to do that. They felt that this album was right and it was a big step up from any of their previous efforts. If you want another Racecar just go and listen to the CD on repeat or write a new one yourself. Don't be pissed off because the Band you loved 10 years ago has changed. Thats just closed mindedness.

Anyway I appologise for this massive, massive reply but if you raise so many questions in one post you have to expect an even larger reply. Good night all, I'll be here all week.


Last edited by petrolmonkey on Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:48 am; edited 2 times in total
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smithers



Age: 30
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 738
Location: Bookham, surrey

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally love everything about INWT, while i ccan accept your opinions.
As petrolmonkey said, its not the first aciustic outing. And ok good luck is not on par with the brilliantness of once, but i still like it.

And i deff think there should be another alpha signal.
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Chrispy



Age: 34
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 1233
Location: Purgatory, Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's always some sort of balance. There will always be a Good Luck, Boy, Numb at 4am, Once etc for every Alpha Signal or Return of the Jedi out there. Respect the equilibrium. Wink

You have to be in a certain mood to enjoy some songs, I personally find INWT to be one of the best modern rock albums made in recent years due to it's tendency to NOT try and flow and to take risks with songs that do not sound quintessentially Reuben, ie Suffocation of the Soul which is FUCKING EPIC. He he.

Sorry you feel that way bro, keep listening and perhaps it'll grow on you!
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chipstick



Age: 31
Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 1782
Location: Southampton / Bournemouth

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love this album. While it is not my favourite, I am in no way dissapointed with it. Though I will admit it was a grower (like all the best albums in my opinion).
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Thomas



Age: 33
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 879
Location: halifax

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chipstick wrote:
Though I will admit it was a grower (like all the best albums in my opinion).


i find it quite amusing the way some people have said this (a view point i agree on with some albums) considering jamies lyrics in crushed.do you think he's read this thread and said 'NO! like it instantly!' Laughing
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jmmkcd



Age: 30
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

s'quite funny, 'cause although Crushed is good, it's possibly my least favorite track.

Good Luck however, is brilliant, I feel. I can't hear that song any other way. Stick an electric guitar and distortion on it, and I honestly think it'd be shite.
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Battle of Britain



Age: 32
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 362
Location: Windsor/Portsmouth

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This guy's assessments are well flawedl. I think INWT has the best flow of any of their albums. Racecar was almost a compilation in a sense as it was some older songs and some newer songs all in one place, Very Fast, Very Dangerous was a really eclectic collection so again it didnt really have a flow but how can ANYONE say INWT doesnt flow?

The fact the first three tracks (if not more) sound like they were written to follow on from one another from their inception for starters. And despite the power of Words from Reuben, No-one wins the war or Kick in the mouth, Cities on Fire is their best opener by far. It's amazin. Also "a short history of nearly everything" is a perfect closer: almost feels like you've come full circle

I love the new album I think it's their most solid album yet, possibly their best imo. That's not a detraction against any of their past output but this feels just like such a great album, you can't touch it. I love every track apart from Crushed and I think Good Luck is really beautiful. I'm surprised by this guy ragging on it. I'm also completely flumoxed that he wants to hear 2 Racecar clones?!? Wtf? What's the point?! There's so many bands that have a tendency to push out very samey albums, Hundred Reasons being an example, and those bands have just stayed stuck in the same rut. Does the fact that Reuben are getting bigger as the months go by not tell you that they're becoming a rounded and evolved band for the ages ala Radiohead etc?

Surely that's a good thing?
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veryexcellent



Age: 33
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1633
Location: Dorset

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure INWT is an album written for me! IMO perfect in almost every way.
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Rich



Age: 34
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

veryexcellent wrote:
I'm sure INWT is an album written for me! IMO perfect in almost every way.

me too, if someone asked me to 100% accurately describe my music taste, or my idea of musical perfection, I would just tell them to go listen to INWT, and Efflorescense by Oceansize, and that should answer their question.
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youdeservetobewith_no-one



Age: 33
Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because of it's long drawn out introduction, it's adagio tempo, it's length, and even it's time signature, to me 'cities on fire' is not an opening track. It is a good song it just doesn't burst out at you. With 'racecar' you were hit in the face with 'no-one wins the war'. The track explodes at you from the very first second that it starts, then in its perfect position is 'horrorshow' to hit you with something more memorable, melodically, due to its simpler musical structure and 4/4 time signature. You can't achieve that kind of consistency when you put two songs which run for 7 minutes...for me, reuben saves those kind of tracks when we've gotten into the feel of the album and can test your patience, rather than attempt it right at the beginning.

The point I was trying to express about a song like 'good luck' is that reuben had the capacity to express a high level of emotion WITHOUT having to pick up an acoustic guitar. They could do it with a forte timbre without ending up resembling just another emo band. To me they don't have to pick up an acoustic guitar or have a girl dueting on the song in order to make a song emotional, it's not them and it's not something they should really attempt to explore. If they do then fine, but to me that doesn't change the fact that it sounds like a thousand other bands out there that you could hear on a thousand open mic nights. A quality which I thought reuben never would have adopted.

The way I feel about Reuben's latest outing hasn't in the slightest got anything to do with the concept of them 'selling out'. If a band has an increased fan base that's fantastic for their success, but to me it shares no reflection on how I will review the album in my own head. If a song is poorly constructed then it is just that, whether it's had fantastic production due to a major label signing, or been recorded with an 8 track in someone's bedroom.

I never suggested that I was ever 'pissed off' with Reuben's personal direction of their music, I just simply can't comprehend it and feel pretty let down and was merely wondering whether anyone else felt the same. It just seems like they shown up to these rehearsals and written these songs which have appeared on INWT more because they're 'satisfactory' and 'meet deadlines' rather than feeling passionate about what they're writing. A foyble I have hit with many groups I have been a member of. To me they have become the 9 to 5vers that 'petrolmonkey' comments on. Maybe just touring with fightstar had a rather negative influence...

In reply to 'battle of britain', I simply feel so disappointed by 'good luck' because that kind of song can be heard from thousands of other bands with the same consistency at your local acoustic open mic night club. The whole defining point to reuben was that despite the fact that there were bands that were similar in the type of post hardcore alternative rock crossover, there was never a band that did it THAT WELL. That could make me question my own existence as a musician, or even as a human being. That could make me relate in such a coherent, specific way.

My main problem with VFVD was that it lacked the flow that racecar did, which is my main complaint about INWT. But perhaps the reason I felt satisfied but not overly impressed with VFVD was because it had taken away the chop and change stylings of racecar and instead replaced with sub-pop blandness of what you'd expect from a band like foo fighters. Music that you don't hate, in fact music you really really like, but not good enough to want to motivate you to actually want to purchase it. 'Everyime a teenager...' and 'Return of the Jedi' being the notable exceptions.

But 'Battle of Britain' if we really want to go into the realms of commerical success, I feel that the growth in the fanbase with Reuben is mainly due to them dumming down their routine in replace for something far more commercially viable. But that can really only be said for VFVD, and neither does that opinion within this conversation have any real merit as its not the subject at hand. The growth in fanbase is something which is completly irrelevant to how I actually feel about Reuben's latest outing, which was the only thing I was trying to state. I was only ever merely trying to say that I'm disappointed in INWT and is there anyone else who feels the same, to which the answer obviously seems to be 'no', which is baffling. I wished for similar albums to racecar because I think a band that keeps true to its consistency is one that remains on top in my books. AC/DC have produced the same album over 10 times but that's why they are one of my favourite bands. They certainly didn't need to pick up an acoustic guitar to convey any raw emotion. Then again comparing two bands of such different callibre is a little obtuse on my part...

And I really don't see how my assessments are 'flawed' exactly. They're my opinions. Its how I feel and I have a right to feel it, that does not make them 'flawed' because they are personal to me. I never have a problem with bands venturing into different directions, but to me it's like reuben have veered off on a bizarre tangent. And how can you compare a group such as radiohead to a band like reuben? Radiohead BEGAN as a commercial indie success who then veered off into an electric avant garde. Reuben were a post hardcore band but I have no idea what they are anymore, that's for sure...

I just don't get this. It's as if Jose Gonzalez suddenly picks up a kazoo and a trumpet and puts a rendition of the Benny Hill theme tune on his latest outing, and then to complain about it just because all the reviewers seemed to have hailed the album like it's gold is something of a crime (by the way if jose gonzalez really does veer off in a similar fashion I think that will be the point I retire as a professional musician and permanently deafen myself with 120db of pure white noise). And I don't understand what you mean by questioning the 'point' to producing two other albums which are similar to racecar. From my perspective I don't see the 'point' in a band creating two albums that lack the depth of consistency of their first creation. It's like getting caviar as a starter and then beans on toast as a main.

I'm not attempting to create any enemies or piss anyone off with what I'm saying, in fact I should have just said 'am I the only one who's horribly disappointed with reuben's latest album?' and left my post as just that. Or just not said anything and close this account to begin with. I don't see myself purchasing any more reuben albums or going to any more reuben gigs. The band that I loved with when I was 16 and listened to over and over again and referred to whenever I have a period in my life which faced difficult choices and situations just simply isn't there for me anymore.
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Lee



Age: 32
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

youdeservetobewith_no-one wrote:
I feel that the growth in the fanbase with Reuben is mainly due to them dumming down their routine in replace for something far more commercially viable.

so are you saying that INWT is more 'radiofriendly' than the others?


youdeservetobewith_no-one wrote:
(by the way if jose gonzalez really does veer off in a similar fashion I think that will be the point I retire as a professional musician and permanently deafen myself with 120db of pure white noise).

i will only take this statment seriously when jose gonzalez releases a song that isnt a cover. all 3 singles of his have been covers.
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chipstick



Age: 31
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee wrote:
youdeservetobewith_no-one wrote:
I feel that the growth in the fanbase with Reuben is mainly due to them dumming down their routine in replace for something far more commercially viable.

so are you saying that INWT is more 'radiofriendly' than the others?

If so then I couldn't dissagree more. The most commercial song on the album, DLNA (arguably) is no more accessable than, for example, Freddy Kreuger or Keep It To Yourself. The increase in fanbase is a natural part of the development of a band that comes with more exposure, advertising, word-of-mouth and musical output.
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james



Age: 32
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like youdeservetobewith_no-one, he/she is indeed very articulate about how he/she feels about this album.

I myself am kind of on the fence, i enjoy bits of the album, but not half as much as i thought i would. And although i would love to go into as much detail as the aforementioned individual has, i don't feel i could without experiencing a great deal of remorse and sadness.
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chipstick



Age: 31
Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 1782
Location: Southampton / Bournemouth

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

youdeservetobewith_no-one, I have taken the time to read both your lengthy posts, and in all honesty this is the only statement I agree with:
youdeservetobewith_no-one wrote:
I've read before from some fans on these forums how racecar [...] is just a 'collection of songs' and lacks flow. I [...] feel that way about INWT.

I agree with James (again Smile) in that I have a lot of respect for your clear love for music and ability to articulate your opinions, without actually agreeing with your assessment. Also, this is probably one of the only instances I have seen where only one person is against the general consensus, and is not out to cause anger, nor does he get unnecessarily defensive at others dissagreement. As such I congratulate you Smile
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