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Chevelle owe Reuben money
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soapy



Age: 35
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Durham

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think i've heard this argument before, it might even been given as one of the reuben reasons for not filesharing on this board . . .

bands might not make that much from cd sales, but if they don't sell records then the labels will lose interest, when the labels start to lose interest life starts to become more difficult for the band when it comes to finances of promoting the band and touring etc, if they can't tour properly they start to lose their audience, if they lose their audience can't make any money, if they can't make any money then they eventually split up,
and then they won't be making any new music for you to enjoy legally or illegally.
or they have to take shitty day jobs and never have the time to tour as much or write the songs they might truly be capable of, and again it's the fans who eventually suffer.


like hempy(?) said, a few songs here and there is enough to help someone discover a band then they can go on to support the band in a more substantive way than just saying they like them.
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soapy



Age: 35
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Durham

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if anything the internet has increased the amount i buy because i'm discovering more that i love rather than just relying on the odd magazine article or support slot like i did when i was first getting into music.
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hempy



Age: 33
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 2990
Location: Guildford/Canterbury Uni

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

soapy wrote:
if anything the internet has increased the amount i buy because i'm discovering more that i love rather than just relying on the odd magazine article or support slot like i did when i was first getting into music.


completely agree. I like many more genres of music now for the same reason.
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soapy



Age: 35
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Durham

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a different argument.

imagine how much it would suck if i didn't get payed at work just because the customers didn't think i should be? lots, that's how much. i'm there almost 40 hours a week doing my thing, i deserve something for it.
same for bands.
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matt d



Age: 30
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 2805
Location: Leeds/ Camberley

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

douglas wrote:
well first off, my excuse isnt bullshit


if you only want to buy 3 albums a months then cool, but im afraid i want at least 200 that come out , and the fact i was getting at is that i WILL NOT let me own situation stop me from enjoying music.

if you feel its bad to download then cool, but i dont see any comments as an attack on me hehe, i opened this up for debate

my final point on this debate will be .....

i download music , i love it, its free, its easy , its awesome to get everything you want , lifes for living not for scrimping n saving to buy all the cds you want, theres too many cds out i want that i wouldnt be able to afford.

end of.


although the download debate has been done many times before I want to have my say in regards to your points.

You justify illegally downloading music just because you can't afford EVERYTHING you want. In my opinion thats stupid logic. I want a lot of things which I can't afford but that doesn't give me the right to steal them. If you can't afford something, tough shit, that's life. There are plenty of ways to get around lack of finances mentioned above.

Oh and in ten years time people will still be buying CDs. The money made from CD sales is incredibly huge and I can't see record companies wanting to ditch the idea any time soon.
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Rich



Age: 34
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 2255
Location: Londinium

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

soapy wrote:
bands might not make that much from cd sales, but if they don't sell records then the labels will lose interest, when the labels start to lose interest life starts to become more difficult for the band when it comes to finances of promoting the band and touring etc, if they can't tour properly they start to lose their audience, if they lose their audience can't make any money, if they can't make any money then they eventually split up,
and then they won't be making any new music for you to enjoy legally or illegally.
or they have to take shitty day jobs and never have the time to tour as much or write the songs they might truly be capable of, and again it's the fans who eventually suffer.



You took the words right out of my mouth.

I have only ever downloaded 1 complete album which was 'Everyone into Position' by Oceansize. I then went and bought the CD anyway. I've downloaded songs here and there but I'm pretty materialistic and prefer a hard copy with artwork, and yes I know some downloads come with artwork but it's just not the same! I can honestly say that in the last 12 months, since I joined myspace, I haven't downloaded 1 bit of music, legally or illegally. I stream everything I want to hear from myspace (or band websites or pure volume etc etc), if I like it, I get the CD.
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laura




Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Glastonbury

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting one.

I'm a bit 50/50, and harsh as it sounds, i only spend a hard earned tenner on a cd if i really have a lot of respect for the band.

Secondly, i have always grown up around musicians, and spent time with them. Most of them just want to be heard, and maybe it's just my chilled out friends, but they hve no issues with illegal downloading.

I have a compelling desperation to rage against the system as well... ie. record companies. Every signed band i've been friends with have been exploited in some way, and there just isn't money for the artist.

I still buy a lot of CD's... anyone unsigned that i discover. I respect them alot for having the guts to stay in such a cut throat industry, and i know that they get the money and not the big dogs.
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matt d



Age: 30
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 2805
Location: Leeds/ Camberley

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

laura wrote:
Interesting one.

I have a compelling desperation to rage against the system as well... ie. record companies. Every signed band i've been friends with have been exploited in some way, and there just isn't money for the artist.



sorry but I don't understand your point. The artists get screwed over by the record companies and so to rebel against the record companies you illegally download music. How would that ever improve the artists situation and them making no money etc??

I know a lot of people who justify illegal downloading because they don't want to contribute to a corrupt industry. The fact is that most industries are corrupt. Do you steal your clothes because people have been exploited in the making of them? No you don't, and I'm not sure why a similar attitude isn't held towards music.
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Lee



Age: 32
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 1947
Location: Shrewsbury

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if its a major label band, fuck it, download it. they have loads of money to throw about.

but if its a small band on a indie label (or doing it themselves like our boys) help them out. they really need the money.
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petrolmonkey



Age: 34
Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 995

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's fair to download a few songs here and there. Ultimately it's no different from someone making a mixed tape for their friends to see if they like a band. I've done the same thing, I've seen or heard a band, downloaded a few tracks to see if I like them, if I don't no matter if I do I will inevitably buy the CD. However I don't think it's fair to steal whole albums. When you consider how much it costs just to get a decent recording, pressing cds, packaging, distribution and so on it's alot of money that a record label doesn't get back. Then when you consider that it's the record label who pay the band, after deducting any advances the band need to pay back for these recordings, it's ultimately the band that ends up losing out.

This will always be the case, even when the band has made an e.p. themselves. They probably don't expect to get the money back but want to increase their fan base. This is why unsigned band are genrally happy with people downloading their music and so getting their name about. But for bands in Reubens position its a make or break time. We all know they still do 9 to 5 jobs and all they want to do is make a living from their music, but they can't if people illegaly download music. If you read all of this I respect you're patience/boredom.
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chipstick



Age: 31
Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 1782
Location: Southampton / Bournemouth

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt d wrote:
If you can't afford something, tough shit, that's life.

Definatly. That's what it comes down to. Some very good arguements coming out by the way people!
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laura




Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Glastonbury

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt d wrote:
sorry but I don't understand your point. The artists get screwed over by the record companies and so to rebel against the record companies you illegally download music. How would that ever improve the artists situation and them making no money etc??

I know a lot of people who justify illegal downloading because they don't want to contribute to a corrupt industry. The fact is that most industries are corrupt. Do you steal your clothes because people have been exploited in the making of them? No you don't, and I'm not sure why a similar attitude isn't held towards music.


I see your point. To be fair, i dwnload SO rarely that it doesn't even matter really, i just hold nothing against those who do. Everyone has so many CD's i'm more of a borrower/mixed CD'er.

Thing is, if there were places where you COULD get all your clothes for free... with no punishment.... do you not think that would be the same?

I see downloading music as not a moral argument in my head at all, but INITIATIVE. You've gota be a MORON to buy everything, surely. It's a dog eat dog world, everyone's trying to take for themselves, everywhere.

I'm all for cracking down on millegal downloading, don't get me wrong, but why not make hay while the sun shines?
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veryexcellent



Age: 33
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1633
Location: Dorset

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

douglas wrote:
i work fucking hard (for a bank) and i dont get a HUGE sum of money for that , but i LOVE LOVE LOVE fucking love heart love (like im sure you all do) music. so heres my thing , should i not hear all the music i want to because i simply cant afford it ? or should i listen to everything that comes out and get more and more passionate about my music in general and listen to more and more bands, and expand my knowledge of music in general for free.


I fucking love driving ferraris, should i not be able to just cos i'm not a millionaire? I'm gonna go steal one. You moan about your underpaid job yet have no problems taking cuts from other peoples jobs?
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colour_golden
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Age: 38
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 1836
Location: Hull - UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

veryexcellent wrote:

I fucking love driving ferraris, should i not be able to just cos i'm not a millionaire?


No need to be a milionaire Very Happy http://www.treatme.net/experiences/ferrari-versus-porsche

Im thinking of doing the Subaru one, would be ace running it flat out agaisnt an Evo 8
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Battle of Britain



Age: 32
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 362
Location: Windsor/Portsmouth

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick wrote:
Another thought... as a bank employee, do you think it would be fair if you only got paid for serving people who decided you were a cool guy?

he'd never make any money...ever

Listen I download but i dont try and justify it with such a flim-flam of an argument. if you like a cd you download then you buy it, that's only fair. If you don't like it, you dont buy it thats the way I see it. You just going "Fuck it I'm not buying anything" is pretty irresponsible and quite a selfish attitude. I'm guessing you're not a musician Douglas
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